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Imagery and Metaphor - Part 3 From the Warner Brothers Forums Part Three of the Discussion Links to copies of the first two threads: 01 | 02 Neo Anderson posted 05-06-99 06:47 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For reference, take a look at IMAGERY AND METAPHOR and IMAGERY AND METAPHOR (PART II) ------------------ "Dodge this" http://i.am/lincolnho Trinity X posted 05-06-99 10:43 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ash1 > no, these statements are not contradictory. The fact that the mind can 'make things happen' doesn't mean that the physical body itself is not real. If you keep a body confined in a pod for 34 years without any form of exercise, the muscles simply have to learn to function, because they never have before. The mind has a very important role in this; as Morpheus said, the body can not function without the mind. But equally, the mind cannot function without the body. It's all an interconnected system. Also, the injuries that Neo suffered were suffered in the Matrix and communicated by his mind to the real world, whereas his muscle atrophy was an affliction he was suffering from in the real world. And this has been noted elsewhere before: while Neo as The One cannot die in the Matrix because the Matrix consists *only* of mindstuff that he learns to transcent, he *can* die in the real world, where mindstuff is interconnected with material realities. ------------------ Trinity... the holy truth that is the epiphany of Love, the essence of what makes Life real X... as in ex, no longer who I was before ... ex-limited, ex-slave... also, X stands for the unknown, as the history that has been created to hide the truth does not permit us to know where we came from NecroSong posted 05-07-99 12:50 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I was wondering about the Jump Program.... is there anything important about that??? And the Way Mouse has such faith in him..... And what about the name mouse? Neo Anderson posted 05-07-99 03:09 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why was the city called Zion? And when Morpheus was telling NEo if he could define reality or the Matrix, how do you actually know that Neo was not going to wake up again. I mean he woke up twice already. How many bullets did Neo stop? Is there also a reason behind that? If Neo had the power after he "ressurected", why didn't he just stop the AI from destroying the Nebachadnezzar? Were the people actually in space or was it a ship that traveled on Earth? It kind of looked like space and it kinda looked like a sewer o some sort. Anyhow, why is it in such a setting? I know this may sound weird but is there another meaning to why we are all put in pods in a bug huge farm? ------------------ "Dodge this" http://i.am/lincolnho Neo Anderson posted 05-07-99 03:33 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://smaug2.whatisthematrix.com/dld/neo.mov You can see here that Neo is sort of being lifted up into the heavens? Maybe? I don't know. Could I be correct? http://smaug2.whatisthematrix.com/dld/crash.mov And here, you can also clearly see that the copter is sort of sinking in to the building. Someone brought up the water thing before but what is it all about? Here's a freebie. The top of the set can be seen in this clip: http://smaug2.whatisthematrix.com/dld/lobby.mov ------------------ "Dodge this" http://i.am/lincolnho Trinity X posted 05-07-99 05:54 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NeoAnderson> Zion is the Holy City, the Promised Land (bible) Neo couldn't stop the A.I. from destroying the Nebu because: 1. he wasn't there when it happened, he was still plugged into the Matrix. 2. He gained the ability to rearrange the MATRIX-reality, but not the reality as it exists in the Real World. And as Trinity explains to Neo when they're ducking for the Sentinels the first time: they Nebu is in an "old sewers-system that is all there is left of these great cities that used to span hundreds of miles..." ------------------ Trinity... the holy truth that is the epiphany of Love, the essence of what makes Life real X... as in ex, no longer who I was before ... ex-limited, ex-slave... also, X stands for the unknown, as the history that has been created to hide the truth does not permit us to know where we came from Trinity X posted 05-07-99 10:36 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ YES!!! I *FINALLY* read all the way through the 'imagery and metaphor' threads 1 and 2. about the water metaphore: It was noted that the bullets when they approach Neo that last time leave little traces behind as if they would be moving through water. I think this is a very good way to indicate that 'reality' in the Matrix is 'fluid', i.e. reality is changable, unfixed, can 'flow' in different directions. I think there were some very good mindexercises about the numbers 101 and 303 as well... Let me put one in as well: 101, Neos appartment: Neo's door to the Matrix World. 303, one of the 'Exits': Neo's door to the Real World. When moving from the Matrix world to the Real world, Neo has to grow, he has to move upwards in his level of consciousness. Higher consciousness, higher number on door you can enter? I *really* appreciated the observation in part 1 of this thread that 101 is a code that is possible to write in computer language, btw! (using only ones and zeros, that is...) btw, has anyone beeen able to see what the roomnumber is of the Oracle's appartment? It keep eluding (sp?) me... ------------------ Trinity... the holy truth that is the epiphany of Love, the essence of what makes Life real X... as in ex, no longer who I was before ... ex-limited, ex-slave... also, X stands for the unknown, as the history that has been created to hide the truth does not permit us to know where we came from Neo Anderson posted 05-07-99 11:14 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ About the AI, I meant that if he could get into the Matrix and know the stuff faster than the computers, then he could connect himself through the system and send a message to the AI to stop destroying the Nebachadnezzer, sort of like a homing signal or something. And how could he actually hear Trinity scream either, if he was actually in the Matrix? YEs, now I recall that sewer system statement. Thank you. ------------------ "Dodge this" http://i.am/lincolnho 12321 posted 05-08-99 05:39 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [this'll be brief 'cause I'm posting from Ma and Pa-in-law's computer] Trinity X: I'm impressed. Hope the read was worth your while. Many good folk have contributed some fine observations. [count yourself among that number] Your "fluid reality" definition for the Matrix is beautiful. [and re: the Oracle's apt no... I've yet to make it out either] Neo Anderson: Neo stoped the same number of bullets that Agent Smith had previously pumped into his chest: 10. And about his reacting to Trinity's scream... You might as well ask how he woke when she hacked "Wake up, Neo." on his computer. You might say they had a [heartwired] connection that even the Agent's couldn't sever. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com 12321 posted 05-08-99 05:45 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stoped? [I miss my electronic proofreader] ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com Mposible posted 05-08-99 06:26 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Zion, in the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary means Loves abode or the Spiritual consciousness. Nebuchadnezzar represents in us the human will backing itself up by the human intellect: bringing about human judgement. Notice that it takes great judgement to try to over throw the AI. Many people will feel as Cypher felt, they would rather stay in the illusion of the Matrix than to wake up into a nuclear winter. As related to our own journeys, many prefer to remain in the passive role of victim rather than to take responcibility as a co creator of this world. ------------------ Nothing is Mposible Mposible posted 05-08-99 06:32 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The numbers 101 add the up and you get 2, the number of the world of duality, the illusion of the Matrix, which Neo is still living in at his apt. Add up 303 and you get 6 a number that is also even (duality) but is the nimber before 7 the number that is associated with Christ and Christ consciousnes ------------------ Nothing is Mposible Trinity X posted 05-08-99 01:48 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Neo Anderson, I don't have the impression that the Sentinels were still connected to the A.I. system though. They were programmed for one purpose only: search and destroy, and then 'let loose' in the Sewer system. There is no reason why they would still have to receive signals from the A.I. system after they have been set loose, they can function as autonomous entities. Therefore, even if Neo could have stopped the A.I. from wanting to destroy the rebellion (which I do find a bit farfetched actually), then he may have been able to stop them from programminng any new sentinels. But he still couldn't have stopped the sentinels that were already programmed. ------------------ Trinity... the holy truth that is the epiphany of Love, the essence of what makes Life real X... as in ex, no longer who I was before ... ex-limited, ex-slave... also, X stands for the unknown, as the history that has been created to hide the truth does not permit us to know where we came from guigirl posted 05-08-99 03:03 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ IF MAN is FIVE and man is five and man if five AND THE DEVIL IS SIX and the devil is six and the devil is six and the devil is six and if the devil is six, THEN GOD IS SEVEN THEN GOD IS SEVEN AND GOD IS SEVEN [/the pixies] throwing a little wierdity into the mix. continue onto your regularily scheduled program. heh cheers guigirl@home - this monkey's gone to heaven! ------------------ + provoke + always + provoke + + http://parasites.org + Neo Anderson posted 05-08-99 04:20 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Then Neo is One Trinity is three What is 2 and 4? ------------------ "Dodge this" http://i.am/lincolnho Mposible posted 05-08-99 06:21 PM ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Although Neo was identified often as being "the one" I believe that after his reserection that he would be identified with 7 the number of Christ. Also, the significance of 6 is not the "devil" as there is no such thing, its significance is coming of the Christ (7) ------------------ Nothing is Mposible 12321 posted 05-10-99 06:27 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ About the thing on Neo's chest in that one scene... The shape of the "golden heart" is quite similar to the shape of the graphic on the back of the TV set [in the construct] which is quite similar to the shape of a logo a familiar super hero wears on his chest. I've made the Christ/Superman connection before, but couldn't be sure about the shape connection of that heart til I saw it again. I hadn't expected the Deep Image/Radiola Television logo to echo the same image, but there it was. As an added bonus for the really observant, [or hopelessly anal] try looking at the negative space between Morpheus' hands in that same construct scene [his hands together at waist level, thumbs and index fingers touching] and you'll see the same inverted triangle with the top two corners knocked off. I believe that shape was used purposefully. And I recently [finally] finished reading that 1996 version of the screenplay. Same ending [Neo steps out of a phone booth and flies] but with a twist -- a boy sees him fly [his mother does not -- more symbolism] and the narration ends with: "His coat billowing like a black leather cape as he soars up, up, and away." I rest my case. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com 12321 posted 05-10-99 06:38 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oh yeah. Just in case anyone is interested in past threads and doesn't want to sift through the archives to find 'em, the direct links are: Imagery and Metaphor: http://wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000027.html Imagery and Metaphor Part II: http://wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000420.html ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com 12321 posted 05-10-99 06:58 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [I hope this works] Hyperlinks anyone? Imagery and Metaphor: [url]wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000027.html[/url] Imagery and Metaphor Part II: [url]wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000420.html[/url] ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com mike@ix625.com 12321 posted 05-10-99 07:06 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Okay, it works in the sig, but not the body... Is it because UBB Code is off? [But it works in the sig! Why?] Oh well, I guess there's bigger mysteries to ponder. Please pardon the interruption. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com mike@ix625.com Neo Anderson posted 05-30-99 10:20 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There have been links with the Bible and Alice in Wonderland but I think I have found some more. Seeing the movie for another time, I've made some connections to the references the movie makes. Correct me if I'm wrong. Trinity says "Run Neo Run" when she after she goes back out of tyhe Matrix and realizes there is an agent there. Forrest Gum anyone? (Run Forrest Run!) Trinity kisses Neo. Sleeping Beauty? When the agent pushes Neo into the subway ditch he says "Mr. Anderson" and then Neo says "My name is Neo". Lion King anyone? (When Pumba strikes). And I finally get why the agents appear out of other people. The movie says that they can appear from anyone still linked to the Matrix, that would be all the people in the prison that the AI has control of. But the agent mentions a perfect world was created in which no one accepted and whole crops were lost. How would people know that there was something wrong in a perfect world? How would they know what pain would be and how would they not accept it if theyt did not ezperience an unperfect world to begin with? ------------------ "Dodge this" http://i.am/lincolnho Neo Anderson posted 05-30-99 10:42 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Also, when NEo leaves the oracle, she says that Neo would feel "As good as rain". In the oracle's apartment, there was a clock on the wall which was a sun, so the Oracle is the light in the Matrix and the rest of the Matrix is dark and gloomy, in other words, unclear and mysterious. The sun or light is the truth. And the Matrix is sort of like the "dark side" of the reality. ------------------ "I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life" http://i.am/lincolnho Neo Anderson posted 05-30-99 10:56 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The movie mentions taxes twice. - Agent Smith says it in the room with the agents - Morpheus mentions it when describing the Matrix It mentions noodles twice - Neo talks about good noodles - the oracle says "this oughta fry your noodle" Antigone posted 05-31-99 06:33 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Okay then!! I suggest to everyone on this board that they get a copy of Dreams by Carl Jung. Jung believed that alchemy was not about changing other elements into GOLD, but that it was a metaphor for individuation. (I would also read Jung - on alchemy). In this movie -- there is a huge use of color Green, Blue, Red, and Gold. The gold is hidden though isn't it? One has to really search for it. It's within the lining of the suits and it is on the TV. I am also tempted to say that the "triangle" you say also is reference to Alchemy. Sheesh there is so much stuff in this movie...it never ends...I hope they give us time to figure this all out before they hit us with another one. ------------------ Antigone The simulacrum is never what hides the truth-- it is truth that hides the fact that there is none. --Ecclesiastes Awakening posted 05-31-99 10:17 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hey out there, I am sitting with the impact of a second viewing, which by the way was different to the first viewing, and came to find an email address for the Wachowsky's, (I would love to get inside their minds! Well at least have a mind bending conversation with them!) And I found this, which is a start. Has anyone been keeping a list of the symbolism, and metaphors, if so I would love to see it! Neo Anderson posted 06-01-99 03:04 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Awakening: go to: Imagery and Metaphor: wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000027.html Imagery and Metaphor Part II: wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000420.html[/url] ------------------ "I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life" http://i.am/lincolnho tracer posted 08-31-1999 11:56 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I really enjoyed this series of threads, back in the "good ol' days" when we discussed the MOVIE. I was hoping some of you who are currently posting might have some fresh perspectives or new insights to share? Note: No criticisms intended! I agree with the value of discussing the meaning of life, and I enjoy the other "deep" threads going right now, but this film was a masterpiece of form and image and deserves to be further explored within this context. If you are interested, I suggest you review the first two parts of this thread also; some great posts to be found! ------------------ "It's the question that drives us..." Matrix